【转帖】specifying paint on us commercial drawings

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specifying paint on us commercial drawings
what is standard practice for specifying paint on commercial drawings in the us?
on military drawings in the uk we used to call up the type of paint or paint system to a def stan (like a mil std) and the color to a british standard (can鈥檛 recall the number but it was virtually a book of color samples like you get from home depot or somewhere, each color had an id).
i didn鈥檛 really work on commercial drawings but from what i recall on the few i saw we鈥檇 specify the paint system, typically supplier and their part number, and the color either from the british standard or the vendors designation system.
here they just say things like 鈥楶owder coat blue鈥?or 鈥楶aint black鈥?which i can鈥檛 help think may not be adequate.  sometimes they refer to paint chips for color but it seems inconsistent at best.
so what is commercial best practice in the us?
thanks,
kenat, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
we call out the manufacturers part number or our own stock number, and the process and thickness if required.  no problems (yet).
believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare.fff"> - robert hunter
kenat,
   what standards does your paint shop understand?
   i am under the impression that paint shops in canada and the us understand the fed std-595b paint chips.  graphic artists and the people who silkscreen panels, understand pantone colours.  i designed a fibreglass shell, and the  fabricator used the pantone charts to figure out his gel coat colour.
   after that, you specify the type of paint.
                        jhg
let's not forget ral codes and bs-381c paint colors either.        
kenat, do you have internal powder coating at your place, or are you sending to an outside vendor?  we did similar, but wee had our own powder coating, so specifying yellow pwdr coat or grey wrinkle made sense.  when parts were sent outside, we provided our powder manufacturers information in a general note.
"art without engineering is dreaming; engineering without art is calculating."
we callout the paint manufactures part number, color pantone number, texture, thickness, surface masking and fed-std-595.
heckler   
sr. mechanical engineer
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
this post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.
thanks,
we send all our stuff out, we don't have our own shop.
i've seen it called up various ways on our drawings, most of which i would not consider explicitly clear (as my examples above).
we have a bad habit of sending stuff out to vendors without complete definition, verbally agreeing things (or maybe in an email or po) and getting a first article that's good and we just go on from there, sometimes for years, never incorporating these comments etc in the drawing pack.  
then when staff leave us, or the vendor, or we change vendor we no longer have complete definition of the part and get stuff in that doesn't work but isn't explicitly 'not to drawing'.
i have a question out to our manufacturing guys to find the answer for a specific part but wanted to know the general best practice.  what the 2 of you suggest is pretty much what i'd expect.
kenat, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
i don't know if it's "best practice", but a "good practice" is:
"prepare surface, prime (primer color), and top-coat (top coat color) per procedure xyz123."
you would then need to develop procedure xyz123.  it will need to include:
what surface preparation and cleaning is required.
required environmental limits for application.
required safety equipment.
required application equipment.
required settings for the application equipment for both primer and top-coat.
what paint and primer and thinners, etc. to use.
how to mix the primer.
how thick to apply primer, how many coats of primer, time required between coats, any additional processes required between coats (sanding, cleaning).
how to mix the top-coat.
how to apply the top-coat, how many coats, time between coats, and additional processes between coats.
post-application processing.

i do the same as heckler. same as machining, coating, etc... leave the process details off.
chris
solidworks/pdmworks 08 2.0
autocad 06/08
thanks all.
if these were internal i might consider the procedure but as i mentioned in my second post (which i was probably typing at the same time as you mint) these are parts made externally.
also as chris says, i don't really want to give processes, just the required end result.
as a few of you have hinted part of my concern is that i correctly specify the complete paint system and factors there in.  that was the beauty of the government standards i used to call up in the uk, done correctly it covered all of this.
also as the painting is usually done by the external machine shop (or their vendor), we don鈥檛 have direct control over the paint shop being used so i want to make it general.
do you think just saying some thing like 鈥渋n accordance with manufacturer instructions鈥?covers most of these points e.g.
surfaces indicated to be painted with (insert paint manufacturer part number/description, name & address/cage code) color (insert relevant fed std-595b, pantone or vendor color identification) in accordance with manufacturers instructions.
for certain applications i can see the thickness, texture etc requirements might also be needed.
also, i鈥檝e just discovered that one of parts that prompted this chain of questioning was actually anodized not painted.  is it reasonable to invoke the fed std or similar colors for anodized parts?
kenat, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
all of our drawings call out black, blue or yellow. then we work out the details about brand and paint code with the supplier/end user by email.  
as noted, it鈥檚 a real mess, if you have to change suppliers.  i don鈥檛 know if there is a really good way to track paint and not waist space on the drawing. currently our po鈥檚 have the info written by hand after the fact buy our purchasing person.  
i definitely would recommend coming up with a better method of tracking paint.
anodize is going to be:
ams-a-8625 (older mil-a-8625)
type i (chromic)
type ii (sulfuric)
type iii (hard)
class 1 (non-dyed)
class 2 (dyed)
or
aa-a42-class i (architectural exterior)
aa-a32-class ii (architectural interior)
astm b 580
you'll have to read up on those standards to determine what process, type and class you need.
"art without engineering is dreaming; engineering without art is calculating."