engineer to draftsman ratio

huangyhg

engineer to draftsman ratio
we are trying to get a handle at our firm on what constitutes an efficient number of draftsmen assuming everyone is reasonably productive (and not surfing the internet all day).  common sense tells me if an engineer's office is backed up with overdue projects while a draftsman has nothing to do, then more engineering help is needed, and vice versa.
we have three structural engineers and four dedicated draftsmen.  what kind of ratios do other folks have out there?
note:  i posted here since i am looking for input from structural folks to compare apples to apples.  also, i am using draftsmen as a generic term.  i realize there is a huge difference between an experienced designer and a simple cad operator.
thanks for the input.
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i used to work at a very large structural firm where the ratio was about 3 or 4 engineers for each drafter.  i now work at a small firm where the ratio is about 2 or 3 engineers per drafter.
i worked for 2 companies, and 2-3 engineers per draftsman or structural tech who does simple layout or connection that engineer can redmark works fine.
we are similar to taro - 3 engineers to 1 tech.
ok fss....do you have too few engineers or too many draftsmen?!
2 engineers : 0 technicians : 1 intern
10 architects : 10 arch. technicians : 2 interns
6 mech or elec. engineers : 4 technicians
my boss is also a structural engineer and heads up the engineering department.  he does little to no engineering anymore.  mostly marketing and other business.
thanks for replies.  my fellow engineers and i do very little cad work, as we have found it slows up the process for us.  that may skew things a little, as well as our typical projects which are mostly residential and light comemrcial.   
ron, i guess we are a few bottles short of a full six-pack.  i can't imagine getting up to 3 engineers per draftsman.  even when i worked in the pulp and paper world, we were at about a 1 to 1 ratio in our department.  
it depends on the kind of structural engineering a firm does.  a forensic engineering firm may do only reports and 8-1/2 x 11 details, in which case perhaps no technicians are required.  like you said fss, in an industrial setting, the ratio would be more like 1 to 1.
most of my career has involved consulting to architects, and it seems like 2 or 3 to 1 (engineers to technicians) is typical.
it also occurs to me that the technician's abilities have an effect on this, as well.  the older, "seasoned" draftsman, who can actually get drawings and details fairly far along before the engineer begins working on the project, is worth his/her weight in gold, and will increase the ratio mentioned above.  a young technician who can basically just reproduce red marks will lower the ratio.
daveatkins
i have 4 engineers and one cad tech.  the cad tech can get swamped from time to time.  when that happens, the engineers help with the drafting.  i'm pretty good with cad, so i do alot more than the other three guys who usually edit text or draw details.  we tried having two cad techs, but there wasn't enough continuous work to keep them busy full time.
i agree with dave atkins comments about the "seasoned" drafter (designer).  at my firm, we have zero structural drafters and i have to do all of my own drawings.  at other firms i have worked at it seemed to be about 2 to 4 engineers per designer.
in the industrial field that i work in, if we had 3 engineers per designer we'd have engineers on cad all day.  we have about 1.5 designers per engineer and we keep them scrambling.  i can usually hold down two designers (one senior and one junior) and keep them busy full time.