structural engineers getting slammed

huangyhg

structural engineers getting slammed
structural engineers getting slammed in the latest edition of modern steel construction:
he's right.  in the two firms i've worked for in my short 3 years i've seen nothing but mistake after mistake and inconsistency on drawings that have gone out.  if i say something or try to fix the problem, i get the "we've done it that way for years" bfs.  it's lousy mediocre "engineers" who can't find their butt with both hands getting very stuck in the status quo.  what's worse is they seem to have an overbig helping of the arrogance we're known for.  if the youngest least experienced person in the company can paint your drawings red then you have a problem imho.  anyway, i'm sure this isn't confined to where i'm at and is obviously elsewhere as well.  all i do is make sure what i do is right to the best of my ability.  i'm sure that everyone isn't that bad because i have seen some very good drawings by other companines.  the problem is it doesn't take a lot of bad apples to make us look bad as a whole. it's not enough to have a degree, you must have the knowledge and the drive to be better than what you are and be the best you can, not put in your 8 and go home.
i agree ucfse.  i would like to add that sufficient time is also a major factor in poor drawings.  ever seen a project run out of money/time and everyone just starts releasing incomplete drawings.  i do not agree with the "we'll handle it with field/supplemental details" attitude.
i don't like the incomplete drawings either but i don't have time to address every situation and i make that known at the beginning, yet i am still given the job with the same low budget.  
for the details i do come up with, they are thorough, but i absolutely do not have time to address all that i would like to. and this is typical of every place i have worked and most i know feel the same way.
haynewp - this article was brought up by a local structural engineer who is now working for an erector.  one other structural engineer responded that much of the lowering of detail is also due to a huge increase in pressures on engineers to produce designs in incredibly short time periods.
i definitely agree that we aren't given as much time as should be allocated to projects typically.  who is to blame though?  do we blame unrealistic owners and architects or is it our boss' or our own fault for agreeing to an unreasonable date?
its an overall cultural thing where the practice of engineering is fast devolving into a commodity instead of a profession.
i agree, short design deadlines are a major cause for these problems. i find it amazing that owners/architects can take 2 years deciding whether to construct something or how it will look, but expect the design and construction to be finished within 6 months.
like it or not, there will always be another engineering firm out there willing to take the owners measley design fee. until this changes (i'm not holding my breath) we'll all be lowered to their level.
a star for you jae for pointing out that engineering has been commoditized.  but this goes for other services as well, including architectural and related design services.
i've worked for firms that were open about sending incomplete and seriously flawed drawings out for bid, often saying that what the contractors don't catch, we won't have t fix.  i worked in the construction administration department, so it became my job to figure out a way to make the design work (without admitting fault).
i quit one place after i was reprimanded for pointing out that a set of hospital drawings had been sent out to bid where the architectural team in chicago used different column spacing dimensions than the structural team did in florida.  i told my boss at the time that it was a design flaw i could not 'fix.'  i was told i had a bad attitude.
that's bs casseopia.  i got an eye opener once when i was told not to worry about fixing some of the steel details before we sent them out.  "we'll get it in the shop drawings".  that ain't right!
i have always suspected architects of holding secret meetings to discuss ways of paying their structural consultants less and less fees <sarcasm>. with the modern architecture now, they are changing things more right up to the deadline. engineers have to spend less time on a given project, but architects spend just about the same time they have over the years. now that we have canned computer solutions, we spend far less time on given project, but profits are not increasing because of much higher overhead to run a company. therefore jobs are "slopped out". well, all that sounds really negative...but perhaps engineering is becoming this.