use of seals on drawings

huangyhg

use of seals on drawings
i applied for a ny seal and was given temporary permission to practice but no seal.  during this short 3 month span i did some design work for my employer.  after this work was completed a letter from the ny board revoked my seal until i had more documentation of my experience.  i came to find out several of my referances did not follow the instructions and were thus tossed out.  my employer  now wants me to seal the drawings with a mi seal and send them to ny.  the owner is o.k. with this.  does this violate any laws, ethics, or other professional creed?  does this violate ny law?  thanks
i doubt that ny will accept a michigan seal for permitting purposes. it doesn't matter if the owner sees no problem with it; the governing authority in ny will probably reject the submission.
in fact, they may see it as a non-licensed person practicing engineering in ny without a license.  could create some problems for you.  the fact that they gave you a temporary permit/license should help in that you didn't do anything unethical.  
i would call the ny engineering board for some advice as to how to proceed.  sounds like you can get comity ...just need the proper references to push it through the process.
i'd look up the parts of the laws or rule dealing with that temporary seal, first.  if you use the temporary licensing, do you use your out-of-state seal with it?
it sounds like your question comes down to:  if i'm not currently licensed, can i now seal work that i did when i was formerly licensed?  as a general rule, i would expect the answer is no- because you shouldn't post-date the seal to some past perior or be sealing stuff currently with no license.
i, too, would suggest contacting the state engineering board.  see, for example, if you can immediately get a renewal of the temporary license?
what did your references do that ny didn't like?  is it possible to get them to fill out your experience forms properly and resubmit?  i was originally licensed in pa and then later applied for my ny license, and had no problems, other than the outrageous fee ny charges.
jae gives good advice.  however, check the licensing laws in ny state.  i believe they say that, if a corporation provides engineering services in ny, the company must be a professional services corporation (which has a strict definition).  most engineering firms, and i would guess precast manufacturers, do not qualify as professional services corporations.  be careful.  i am a three person (all owners) engineering corporation.  one owner is not a professional engineer.  therefore, ny would not issue my firm a certificate of authorization to provide engineering services in ny.  i was told that i would have to practice as a sole proprietor in ny, using my own name, instead of my corporate name, on all documents and submissions.
thank you all for your replies.  i am licensed in pa, mi, and tx. the job this was for is done and was a emergency dam repair for rge thought the federal goverment.  the frc will not pay the owner until seals on drawings are provided so it is a big deal.  the only think that happened in the referances was that one did not provide a seal, and the other never mailed it in.  i will look into the buisness type and make sure we qualify. thanks.
one other thought, based on your last post here, is that if the work is on a project that is a federal project, managed by the feds, and on fed property, then the state of ny has no jurisdiction and your michigan seal would/should work fine as long as the owner (the fed agency you are working with) approves it.  for these types of projects, there is usually no submittal for permit to the local city/county etc. as the project is technically not in their state or city (i.e federal land is not state land).
jae, nice answer.  i've had the same experience with federal jobs.
this job is actually a private job for a hydro-electric power station owned by a private corporations.  the federal regulatory commission is overseeing all work, pay, and contract issues.  as far as we know the state of new york and there officials are not even allowed on site for safty inspections.  thanks for the tip, i had forgotten about that.  that makes sense though i am also doing a job in the marshall islands and any state seal will do for that one too.
thanks,
does this violate any laws, ethics, or other professional creed?  does this violate ny law?
of course it does violate the laws of ny. you are not licensed in ny. you may get the project approved by whomever, but you are committing a felony by practicing engineering without a license. there are no exemptions for federal projects. in most other states, this is only a misdemeanor crime.
the person accepting your mi pe license does not have the authority to permit you to practice engineering in ny. that is up to the state of ny and is a separate matter. sure your project has been approved, but you are breaking the law. it's the same as speeding down the street when no cop is present. however, unlike the speeder, you are leaving evidence - your mi pe license.
if someone gets mad at you for whatever, they can report you to the state of ny. you should follow up and get the ny p.e.
here are relevant passages of ny laws:
"any use of the title "professional engineer" or provision of professional engineering services within new york state requires licensure, except in certain "exempt" settings. these settings are detailed in section 7208 of the education law."
"§7202. practice of engineering and use of title "professional engineer". only a person licensed or otherwise authorized under this article shall practice engineering or use the title "professional engineer"."
this is a very interesting thread.
perhaps speak to a lawyer before doing anything more.  ny state will probably say they have jurisdiction and the feds probably don't care.  you will probably end up in court if you seal with mi seal.  i wish it was more cut and dry.
to my knowledge, canada also has this same black hole with regards to engineering done on federal projects and industry canada related works.  federal employees have exemption though.
vod