how did you get started

huangyhg

how did you get started
hi
i am trying to start my career as an aerospace engineer. since this site is full of people who have successfully done that, i thought someone could tell me how they got started.
eng-tips forums is member supported.
with the economy the way it is, i suggest getting as many degrees as you can.  really learn the material.  if you really want to be an engineer, have the practical knowledge to back up your book learning.  design-build-fly extra-curriculars are good.  or get experience riveting or doing composite lay-up - real hands-on hardware stuff.  take summer jobs at local airports if you can't get an engineering internship.  if research is more your thing, stay on for the phd and do lots of lab work early in school.  go to the best school you can afford; don't be afraid of loans - you can deduct the interest and rates are really low right now.  still, i think the real world is better than academicians say it is.  only stay in school long enough to get a job you really want.  that doesn't mean you can't go back later to help change jobs.
as for actually getting a job, be persistent and willing to move.  look in unusual places and fields.  i lucked into an engineering job through a management internship for fresh-outs.
i agree more with kuae99's statement "only stay in school long enough to get the job you really want", rather than "...i suggest getting as many degrees as you can."
having advanced degrees can price you out of some entry-level positions.  having said that, a master's degree is pretty much universally desirable if you are hoping to stay in the more technical, analysis-oriented end of the business.  don't bother if your end goal is to be in technical marketing.
probably the most important part of staying employed in the long term is to develop industry contacts.  after 14 years in industry and 4 job changes/relocations, the only job i ever got through the hr department was my first job out of college.
as for trying to get started, and building a resume that gets noticed by technical professionals, try to rely more on information that shows your interest in engineering and technical subjects rather than a long history of temp employment that kept you going through high school and college.  i'm far more interested in talking to someone who designs and builds their own r/c model airplanes as a hobby than someone who simply lists a series of non-related summer jobs.
people who are smart enough to be aerospace engineers are smart enough to know that more money can be made in other fields with more job security.  the ones who stick around, and the ones i would look to hire, are people who have a love of airplanes, an inquisitive nature, and an interest in all things technical.
also stress any experiences you have that demonstrate your ability to function in a team environment.  you don't have to necessarily have to have great leadership experience; that won't be expected of you right out of school.  you do, however, have to be able to get along with the people in your group, and be able to communicate well.
most companies (oems, at least) will train you to do the job they want.  really big companies, like boeing, have their own way of doing things which vary slightly from everyone else, so don't worry too much about your technical experience.
when i interview people, i look for the right person to add to the group.  we can train them with the skills they need to be successful.  attitude and perseverence go a long way.
best of luck to you.  the job market is not that bad right now, and things will likely improve in the next couple years with increased defense spending and recovery of the commercial market.
randal heller
get a degree in order to get into the company you want and to provide legal coverage for the work you do.  then it's experience- experience- experience.  learn as much as you can about as many areas as possible and you'll be very employable.  
the least productive thing you can do is to take the attitude of waiting till you need to know something and then doing a course on it.  people will not consider you for work that you haven't shown some ability to do and they don't wait for you to do another degree.
thanks to everyone for their input.
randal heller wrote "the job market is not that bad right now".
perhaps it is better where you live. in canada, the big companies like bombardier are laying off people.
master's
i have applied but the competition is really tough. more people are applying because they can't find jobs. maybe i should apply to an american university.
continued learning
i have taken courses in autocad and tried to learn html on my own. it is difficult to pick what program to learn as companies only care if you know the package they use even if you know something comparable. also i don't know where i can learn useful things like nastran or ansys.
don't get too discouraged by layoffs.  one of the big problems with any reasonably large company is a thing called "skills mix," which has to do with whether the people you have on the payroll are qualified and able to do the work that you have.
in many cases, companies will be laying off through one door and hiring through another, because of skills mix.
so, even is a company is laying off, i would still pursue them, on the chance that my particular skill is what they lack.
ttfn
the converse of that is that the more skills you have, the more attractive you are and less likely to get laid off.  
in fact, if you present a sufficiently broad mix of skills, a company may find that appealling all on its own merits.
ttfn
what kind of stuff are you interested in doing? what do you have experience in?
t
astroclone
for my internship i did mechanical stress testing: vibration, shock, torque, and thermal.
i like that and fem.
i went to a technical college, got a diploma, and was hired right away by a company that does mods & repairs to mid-size commercial aircraft (twin otters, king airs, bell helicopters, and the like).
given your experience, i would suggest that you don't limit your career search to just the big airframe manufacturers.  you might have the skills to contribute to an avionics company, who are constantly pumping out black boxes, each of which "runs the gauntlet" of tests (eg. rtca do-160).
following up on a comment about "american universities", my guess is that you're in canada, like me.  since that also means that there's a 90% chance you're somewhere near to, you've got lots of choices of companies that manufacture and test equipment in this way.
i weigh in on the "experience" side, therefore aim for what you already know, and sponge up what you can, wherever you end up.
if you have enough time behind autocad then you could also contribute to the basic design of equipment, too.  smaller companies may not do the testing themselves, but they might make their own boxes, and rely on organizations like the csa to do the testing.
stf
i have been in engineering for 14 years and have an honours degree and more recently a phd. i have alwyas found when both looking for a position and looking to employ that it is not only the breadth and depth of knowledge that the person has but also their attitude. if you can't work in a team and be adaptable then you will never really get on. above all be confident in yourself, be persistant and don't get down hearted. here in the uk engineering in general has a bad name and is not widely promoted but the jobs are there and it is just a question of finding them.
if you find a job that is rewarding stick with it - if not get out and find another - sitting in a boring job is the quickest way to loose interest in you career.
good luck
i agree with all the inputs above.
i actually started in the chemical industry & used & built up experiences in aerospace related technologies to switch into the aerospace industry.
many of the skills required in other industries (with modest adaptation) can be utilised in the aerospace business eg. technical reporting, presentations, part defect investigations, cad/ fea etc.
i think flexibility & adaptability appears to be the key.
best of luck
you picked a good forum to ask your question.  i have seen many of the comments in action.  keep in mind that if you are trying to get started, a move might be necessary.  if you are truly flexible, you might try contracting for a while.
another option is to pursue the advanced degree of your choice.  in other words, don't pursue a ph.d. unless you are truly excited about the topic.  in my case, i really got excited about fatigue and fracture of metals late in my undergrad years.  i decided to stick around for a masters to do materials testing and finite element analysis.  my interest level deepened the more i did and pretty soon i was well on my way to a ph.d.
once i completed my ph.d. program, i hired on to a major airframer, which required a move, as an entry level engineer when they "weren't hiring".  within my first year, this airframer went through a major layoff but i was retained.  within three years, i was back in a lab environment as a lead engineer.
after nearly 8 years, multiple layoffs, and a 6 week strike, i chose to take all my training and practical experience and move back to a more geographically pleasing location.  this placed me in totally different engineering environment outside a lab but still associated loosely with fatigue and fracture of metals but in a community where i was essentially an unknown quantity.  in order to to this though, i took a pay cut and a position without leadership responsibility.  for me, the pay cut was only a small issue and the lack of leadership responsibility was a relief.  one year later, i was able to get a promotion and exceed what i would have been making had i stayed at my first engineering job.
in my opinion, the following points are important.
focus your technical training on what you enjoy technically.
be willing to move to get yourself established.
focus on your goals, not a pay check, status, etc.
demonstrate your capability and let it speak for itself.
if you find the employment experience at one location isn't working out, don't be afraid to make a change even if it is into a different facet of your specific area of expertise.
take your job seriously but balance that with a genuine interest in what your are doing so you can truly enjoy your job.
contacts are certainly beneficial but they are not, necessarily, a requirement.
good luck,
ml thomsen
stressed girl
i'm new to this forum so this reply is a bit late but having been one of the few women aircraft engineers,i thought my mumblings may help.
i was lucky enough to get an apprenticeship with the 'worlds favourite' back in the 80's, but that was only because i had a misspent youth building and fixing motorbikes.
to this day i haven't got a degree in anything, least of aero eng. but i have had some fascinating jobs.
i have fixed both light aircraft and large airliners and loved both aspects equally. after 7 years of fixing i moved into teaching, (but only after gaining a basic teaching qualification at night school) and eventually taught airline pilot technical conversion courses on 747's and 777's. (explains the name simchick)
i had a short interlude writing flight manuals for 146's and doing my commercial pilots license and now i am teaching atpl technical courses at college.
it depends on how much you want to do what you want to do. enthusiasm is everything and a degree is not the end but the beginning - you will never stop learning (which is why i am looking at this forum!)
i do hope you manage to get where you want to go
take care
simchick
here goes what i did: aerospace eng. degree from parks college (st louis university) and mba (executive). after 10 years of engineering in 8 diferent companies you have to understand the following facts:
1.- i am an engineer and i can work in many fields (manufacturing, maintenace, design, structures...)
2.- with a second languaje (spanish) i can work in 26 countries, so i am flexible
3.- i move with the flow, if aeronautics are low i move to comunications, now i am in construction (but always with more salary), today in spain i earn $55.000
4.- be flexible and open minded (never say i can麓t do it)
best regards
jorge vald茅s
ae 麓92 slu
stressed girl,
one thought i didn't see mentioned in other replies: get involved
in technical societies that represent your area of expertise or interest.
many of the larger technical societies have local chapters. you don't need to
necessarily limit yourself to aerospace societies, but can look into
societies having your academic interest or look into a society
with a large aerospace component, even though that society doesn't
mention aerospace in its name.
(an example is one of my professional memberships, the institute of
environmental sciences. this society has a major division dedicated to
reliability with a large aerospace membership component. the society
also has computer sciences and contamination control divisions. many of
the members from the aeropace division also benefit from and participate
in the computer and contamination control divisions technical expertise
since there is a lot of interdivisional overlap.)
attending meetings is a great way to network and get to know and
become known by your potential peers. these meetings often have
stressed girl,
i am a female engineer working in the engine repair business for the past two years, and before that i was in university, where i completed my b.eng.  the only advice that i have for you is not to be picky.  take any job related to your field, get experience, and then choose.  i started off by doing 4 month work terms here and there, 3 in total, so when i had my interview for my current job, i "had an idea" on what was going on.  if you are not sure that you want to do a masters, do some leadership courses at the same time as you are looking for a job.  it can only help.
good luck!
follow your heart, do what you want--- if you just want money follow a path already broken.. pride is breaking your own trail follow nobody just for their image, the greatest mark has none better. i have great knowlege in my field, make very little money and am the happiest i've ever been. how you measure yourself should only be on yourself and not against another.
hi stressedgirl,
there are so many options, one of so many to choose from is to get paid and build experience as you attain your education. 6 years ago i left the defence force after 11 years of working around helicopters. i was pretty tired of it all to say the least, but after that period of time who wouldn鈥檛 be?!
my point is merely this, while progressively studying (course after course) and building experience, i was able to experience many things an engineer doesn鈥檛 normally get to experience. post maintenance test-flying, conducting rotor balance and smoothing flights, topping checks for compressor bleed, auto-rotation checks (which are pretty cool), gunship shoots (who gets to do that in the real world???), and trips away with aircraft as support. at the time some of it was the pits, but looking back on it now it was so cool. not to mention getting paid, buying a house, holidays and having a life in general.
anyway, these days i鈥檓 working as a business development manager for an it company, large networks and stuff but with the outlook toward bdm work for defence space technology. getting my drift? be careful not to press fit yourself into something if you鈥檙e not totally sure of it, keep your options open a little鈥? a pinch fit would perhaps be just fine for a few years.
you may well end up steaming in a direction that you might not be able to think of right now. either way, you鈥檒l have all the hands-on experience in world to take to the next employer.
experience 鈥?i couldn鈥檛 agree more to the replys you鈥檝e already received.
the very best of luck to you!