design of vaults

huangyhg

design of vaults
dear all,
can one of you help me to solve the following problem?
i'm designing a 3 storeyed bank building. there is a vault on the 1st floor level. i thought of having 9" thick concrete walls around the vault. is there any other considerations when you design these type of structures? if you could provide me with a web-link (if available), that would be ideal.
regards,
clefcon
you should coordinate that with the architect.  on the banks i have worked on, there is a pre-manufactured vault that is used with no need for engineering.  the manufacturer or architect will also suggest a foundation thickness and reinforcing for the area under the vault.
if you do end up designing the concrete walls - will you please leave an area about 2' x 2' without rebar.....
then share that information with the forum..  don't forget the address..
thanks
concur with ucsfe
the recent bank structures that i have worked on utilized a pre-manufactured vault wall and ceiling.  the floor was recommended by the vault wall supplier and constructed by the general contractor (concrete sub).  the latest recommendation that i used was (3) mats of steel with reinforcing in each direction and 12" minimum concrete thickness.  this wault was elevated above the basement.  there is some coordination to be done between the vault wall supplier and vault floor dealing with connections/support.
a little off topic, but i thought i'd share. we just demolished a vault from a 1900 era bank building as part of a big rehab project. this vault was in the basement and had a single mat of 7/8" round bars at 6" both ways, centered in 12" walls and ceiling, sitting on the plain concrete floor. it yielded easily to modern equipment, but i had to wonder if at the time it was thought to be "indestructable."
equally off the direct topic, but some owners are especially interested in the robustness of the vault to sustain some pretty high levels of attack. for instances, one agressive way to break into a vault is the use of a 'burn bar,' which is a thermal tube burning oxygen and solid fuels at an ultra high temperature sufficient to cut through bothfff"> concrete and steel.
one low tech, but effective way to prolong break through from this means of attack is to insert staggered layers of expanded polystyrene boards within the thick concrete walls. the eps boards serves to foul and gum-up the tips of these burn bars to such an extent that it greatly delays burn through, hopefully allowing the authorities to arrive in time to save the day!
my experience is exactly that of ucfse
regards,
lutfi
banks often have different levels of protection for vaults and different specifications for each type.... for miketheeng... with atomic hydrogen torches (burning bars) reinforcing matters little... i re  
wish i had known that on the last heist - took us forever to get through that bank vault wall....
thanks to you all. your posts are very helpful.
clefcon
i think the main consideration is that a structural engineer shouldnt be designing the security aspects of a bank vault.
either get a premanufactured vault or a consultant that is specialized in this area.
fyi: all bank vaults can be broken into, they're just something gives law enforcement time to get to the scene.  better vaults take longer to get into, etc.