how do you work with pemb manufacturers

huangyhg

how do you work with pemb manufacturers?
i work at an a/e firm and it usually comes up once or twice a year that some architect wants to make a pemb fancy by making an odd column layout, cladding it with brick, adding mezzanines, adding cantilevers, and using odd roof pitches.  for example, an architect came to me today wanting to know the wall detail required to cladd his pemb in full height brick with windows, etc.  without having done this particular detail before i really dont have any resources to give him a great answer of industry standard.
have you guys found a good way to work with pemb manufactuers on odd conditions?  are there any design manuals w/ details out there?  we've tried contacting various manufacturers but usually nobody will work with you unless they've already got the job, and even then its usually a month wait just to get a decent response.  any help/experiences would be great.
check out our whitepaper library.
many metal buildings are built with brick wainscot but with full height brick walls, the building frame must be limited in lateral movement to prevent the brick from cracking. i would suggest checking with bia on recommended sway limits. depending upon the height of the building, i would try to span backup light gage metal studs from foundation to roof. i would try to avoid using metal building girts because of their flexibility.
good luck!
boiler:
imho, this is a area that there is a lot of confusion over. your responsibilites and those of the pemb suppiler need to be clearly laid out in your contracts. you need to press the owner, or architect, up front to define the responsibilities of each team   
that is really good advice and it does help me, though i cannot limit my structural contract because i work beside an architect under one roof.
my question has to do more with how to detail a lot of these different conditions.  basically i need something to help me with details.  if you design backup for the brick, do you use studs and keep them in line with the girts or run the past the face of the girt?  things like that.  
sorry if i mis-understood the thrust of your question.
we have a older version of this book. it is very good for laying out how basic metal buildings work, the function of each componet, how things are typically detailed, etc. our version is not all that good on describing how to handle out of the ordinary conditions.
to be honest, its been a long time since i done a pemb were the building suppilier was not known ahead of time. seems like we are the last people on board when a pemb project is done.
for metal studs laterally supporting brick, we try, where possible, to use full height studs that do not rely on intermediate support. when we can achieve this, there is no need for intermediate girts. we line up the exterior flange of the studs approximately 1" outside of the exterior flange of the building frame. at the top, we show an eave girt for the studs to attach laterally to. this is suppiled by the metal building suppilier, but we usually set some criteria it must conform too (miminum i, miminum s, etc).
for other unusual stuff, we show the required framing, and attachment to the pemb if required. if we are attaching to the pemb, we show a proposed connection, and the reaction from the member that the building suppiler must consider in his design.
its always good to work with their engineer where possible, but re  
i highly recommend you get a copy of "metal building systems" by alexander newman, you may also want to look into getting a metal building systems manual published by the metal building manufacturers association.   when pembs get anything but plain jane...they can become a snake.
agree with blake989 - newman's book is excellent.
newman even answers e-mail questions sent to him!
my experience(s): the owner's rep - usually my pm shilling for the owner for some bad reason - sells the "quick and cheap" aspect of a metal building system and then tells me that adding a mezzanine, etc. is "easy." well, it's not easy and the minute i change anything, the pemb warranty is in question. so, we force the construction contractor to "provide us a metal building system with mezzanine." they end up picking a supplier (butler, chief, et al.) and working with them.
i have newman's book on order, thanks for the advice guys.
boiler,
as one of blake989's "snakes" perhaps i can offer some general advice on dealing with metal building manufacturers.
1) metal building companies are manufacturers of steel buildings, not a provider of engineering services.
2) we design metal buildings and their components.
3) give us required design specs and we will provide the building accordingly.
4) need attention from a manufacturer pre-sale? call a company's salesman for the region. these guys can provide a lot of answers...as long as they're getting a chance to sell a building of course.
i tend to think blake989's perception comes from the fact that metal building manufacturers generally want to avoid items in our scope of work that we aren't familiar with, good at, or don't have the experience to provide the best solution to the building owner.  nobody would ask us to design their hvac system right?  well, we don't know a whole lot more about hardwall systems and their details.  but we can sure design an economical tapered steel rigid frame that meets the necessary sidesway limits.
boiler - if these companies aren't responding for a month they are the kind of competitor i like.  check for a company located in waterloo, in...a division of the country's largest steel producer.
i've found that exterior masonry walls with a non-diaphragm roof need a wind girt at the top of the wall, or perhaps on the inside face of the wall near the top.  this girt can either be designed by the engineer of record, or by the mbs vendor, but if you have the mbs vendor design it, do as chuckerd says and give them the design specifications.  for example, "design girt for wind load on masonry, using 10 year wind interval, limiting deflection to l/240, with a maximum deflection of 1 1/2." (the more conservative among us may not agree with these limits)  the engineer of record should specify the connection between the wall and the girt, and then make sure these get installed in the field because it is a very common error to leave the tie out.