school glue lam question

huangyhg

school glue lam question?
i was in an elementary school yesterday trouble shooting an hvac problem and came across what i think is a very serious problem.the hvac contractor cut a notch in the 20" x 6" glue lam to get the duct work through.i looked at 2 that i could get two and they took at least 10" vertically and 24 " horizontally out of the bottom of the beams. this notch was probably about 2 feet from the center of the school where the beams from both sides of the structure are bolted together.these glue lams are about 30" apart and run out 30' to the sides of the structure.to make matters worse they loaded two 10000# hvac units 30" apart in the center of the roof line.this was done 6 years ago,30 years after the school was built.in a nutshell, what action do you experts think i need to pursue.do you think the integrity of the structure has been compromised to a point of immediate action.this was done 6 years ago but we have had no snowfall in that time.
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seeing something like that i would bring it to the attention of the owner - preferably in written form (as this documents your proper response).
it may be that 6 years ago the cutting of the beams was investigated and approved by a structural engineer and the owner is aware of this.  
it also may be that a mechanical contractor got carried away and no one ever knew of this condition.
the proper course of action - for the owner (once notified by you of this) is to get a structural engineer to investigate it if no one ever knew about it.
if the owner doesn't respond to you about it, i would be tempted to attempt a second time to notify them of this situation and insist that someone look at it.  if the owner refuses, then you should go to the city or other appropriate official and notify them of this.
taking 10 inches out of a 20 inch beam doesn't sound like a structural engineer ever looked at it.
i agree with jae...  
even the situation is out of your area of licensed expertise, as a professional engineer relying on your engineering judgment, once you have found a potentially unsafe situation, it is your professional responsibility to inform the appropriate parties of the situation in writing.
moreover, it is only appropriate that you expect to  receive a written indication from them that the problem, or lack of it, has been satisfactorily addressed to assure public safety.
mike mccann
mccann engineering
yes, i forgot to point out what mike just did - that even though you are "mechanical" you have a legal obligation to point out any questionable, or percieved unsafe, condition to ensure the safety of the public.
i don't know if acjourneyman is an engineer or a tradesman, but he certainly knows enough to realize that what he saw is a potential problem.  even if he is just a good citizen, he should do as jae suggests.
i agree fully.  this needs to be noted in writing to the superintendent of the school.  i commend you for taking the time to point it out and report it properly.  many non-structural people would likely not report it at all.
i am definately going to report this but i am worried that the superintendant will wash it under the rug and i will have to go public.i made an error in my original post , the beams are not 30" apart but 15 ft apart, there is approximately 12 on each side of the school that carry all the roof load.to make matters worse, one of the ones they notched with a sawzall and they actually went to far and cut up to within 6" of going through the beam entirely.
you are definitely doing the right thing, and the sooner the better.  i would put your concerns in writing, and as well get an appointment to tell him in person.  print the comments on this forum and include them if you think that would bear some weight.  i believe the superintendent will act, but if not, as jae said, you should go to the building official.  this is not really a political thing, it is a matter of critical public safety.
a further thought...  if the school district tries to wash it under the rug as you suggest, a very viable option would be to go to their insurance company with some pictures and written documentation at the same time as going public to the media.  pressure is good.
for that level of workmanship, or lack of it, the ball was dropped by someone, and a pretty big ball at that.  it is winter and kids are in the school.  push the issue.  lives depend on you.
mike mccann
mccann engineering
i find it really hard to beleive that a school official would "wash" their hands of the problem. bringing the comments of this post also seems like a waste of time.
all you need to do is politely meet with the school and inform them that holes in glb's don't work well even in the best situation and in this situation it is particularly an issue and that it should be reviewed by a structural engineer well versed in this type of work. i would then follow up with a professional well written letter outlining your concerns.
for soooome reason if that does not get the situation addressed then i would call the local building official, calling the insurance company (if you can find them)  is a waste of time and could take significant amount of time assuming they even do something about it.
bottom line engineer or not we all have a duty to report usnafe situations and get them resolved, particularly when the safety of our kids our at risk.
in ca the local building official has no control over a school, dsa (division of the state architect), so if you run into trouble with the school, it is best to find out the governing inspection body.