weight of carpet and ma

huangyhg

weight of carpet and mat
does anyone know how much a typical carpet and carpet pad weighs?  this is going in a multi story apartment building.  i have looked on the internet, but i'm not getting the right "weight".  is 5 psf too high?  thanks in advance.
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i would have guessed at 2 psf.
weight is given per square yard. ask the carpet shop.
technically, this weight should be part of the design live load for the floor.
mike mccann
mmc engineering
carpet as live load?  i've never seen it that way.  that is usually a static, known load that doesn't vary over time.

i've used 2psf, as jae suggests... good idea to confirm with the "carpet supplier," though.
mike -- interesting... i've typically included a floor finish allowance in my dead load calc sheet... with consideration for whether it's tile, carpet, etc.  but i do suppose floors can get refinished in the life of the structure, so i see the argument.  i'm not going to worry about my past designs being inadequate or anything, but it's an interesting point.    perhaps i should change my ways.  i'd be very curious about what other engineers do as well.  actually, now that i reread it, i'm confused about whether you are suggesting that the code-prescribed minimums include an allowance for floor finish or whether it's an "add," like moveable partitions or something.  
   
what about framed partitions?  this will be there, but it is possible that it could be removed.  i believe it is a dead load...5 psf.  any thoughts?
partitions i include in the dead load portion - an allowance based on an average of 5 to 7 psf depending on the construction.  i believe that this load is considered a dead, or permanent load as many or most of the walls are either shear, bearing, or both - permantnt structural fixtures of the structure.  i suppose that you could argue to separate out the strictly partition walls as additional live load, and the permanent structural walls as dead load.  i combine them all under dead to keep it simple.
jae:
argueable, but, except for the partition walls, which do include bearing as well as shear walls (permanent structural features), in addition to strictly partition walls, i do consider the carpet as live.  if there is tile and a grout layer or gypcrete, then it is ovbviously dead and i include it as such.  i do include a 3/4" overlayment for the carpet though in the dead load.  the 40 psf residential or 50 psf office live loads are intended to provide for personnel as well as furniture and appurtanances.  i consider the carpet as part of the appurtanances, as well as drapes, bedding, clothing, books (except libraries), etc.
hope i have muddied the arguement...   
mike mccann
mmc engineering
another acid test is that dead load is considered anything that is permanently attached to the structure of the bulding.  live load is not.
consequelntly, applying this test, we would need to include the weight of any item strapped to the structure with seismic straps, as water heaters, book cases, china cabinets, wall hung storage cabinets, and the like.  a real can of worms and accounting nightmare.
i really do not consider it appropriate or necessary to go to that length though.
so...where do you draw the line?   
mike mccann
mmc engineering
thanks everyone.